Yuki Tsunoda and Liam Lawson spoke for the first time at length ahead of F1 Japanese GP about their situation, as other Red Bull drivers and non ones chimed in.
After struggles in Australia and China, Red Bull took a quick decision to swap Lawson with Tsunoda from this weekend’s F1 Japanese GP onward. The Japanese driver finally gets his big break alongside Max Verstappen, while the Kiwi returns to Visa Cash App RB alongside Isack Hadjar.
It only took few days to decide which allowed Tsunoda and Lawson to spend some time at the respective factories to be ready for Japan. It has been a whirlwind since. Both look positive, though, to start their journeys. All four had a showrun together in Tokyo on Wednesday.
Tsunoda spilled on what Christian Horner said to him and his expectations overall. He can sense how tricky the RB21 is but only once he gets to drive, he will get the full understanding. He is ready for the challenge and hopes to do justice to Red Bull’s decision to swap.
Lawson, meanwhile, was surprised by the news but has accepted it since. He is raring to return to a familiar place and re-create the magic he showed there. It is a harsh reality for him, but he is focused now to do as much as possible to secure a long-term F1 future.
Verstappen, particularly, didn’t seem too happy with the decision to swap so early, as his focus is on improving the car which will ultimately help the other driver too. Hadjar is fine with the call and expects good relationship with Lawson as well to take Visa Cash App RB forward.
News broke, take on it –
Tsunoda: “Really looking forward to it. Can’t be crazier than this, I guess, this situation. First race in Red Bull Racing and on top of it, a home Grand Prix. I think it’s the best situation ever. I’m just excited. Simulator went well. I spent a few days in Tokyo, which was really busy, but at the same time I was able to spend it with friends as well. So yeah, really good so far. I can’t say specific details, to be honest. The first call I got was from Christian Horner after China, saying maybe be prepared, things might change a little bit. That was around Monday or Tuesday. I was in the UK for preparation for Suzuka – that was already planned. I did a simulator session with Red Bull Racing, at that point it was just in case. Within two or three days in the UK, he confirmed it in person. So that was kind of the timeline. I can’t when specifically but that was the timeline. He wanted me to be very confidential, so literally I didn’t call anyone.
“Even though I called – well, I won’t say here – I’m just kidding, I really didn’t say anything, not even to my parents. Actually, I told them maybe the day before the news came out. So that’s it. And yeah, I got a message from Pierre, that he wanted to call me about the experience he had in Red Bull, about the things he should have done in Red Bull and he wanted to share a couple of ideas he thought could work for the coming races in Red Bull. That was very nice of him and very useful tips. I also got support from Checo as well. All Red Bull family drivers gave me supportive messages. Those two have been very supportive to me, and I really appreciate it.
“They’re drivers I respect a lot, so I’m very happy. I mean, in simulator obviously it’s not fully correct in terms of trickiness of the car, but at least it didn’t feel crazy tricky. I can feel what the drivers mentioned about the instability or lack of driving confidence. I did multiple set-ups that I wanted to try to make it better and those two days seemed pretty productive. I know what kind of direction I want to start and it seems to be a good baseline in terms of overall performance. So yeah, it was a really good simulator session.”
Lawson: “Yeah, I think obviously an opportunity this weekend and maybe something I wasn’t expecting so early, but something that obviously is not my decision. And for me it’s about making the most of this opportunity now. And obviously still being in Formula 1, I still have that. So yeah, it’s been a good week of preparations, so I’m excited to get going. I had no idea in China. It was something that was decided, I guess, the Monday or Tuesday afterwards. I found out after China basically. So yeah, it was, I think for all of us, probably more unexpected. But it was after the weekend. It was more of a done deal, I would say. I left China, started preparations for Japan, and basically I had a phone call saying that this was what was going to happen. So, yeah.
“I would say, as I said, I was more surprised. Obviously, it’s very early in the season. I was hoping to go to a track that I’d raced before and have a clean weekend to have a chance like that. The decision obviously was made, and when I was told, although it was tough to hear, I had one or two days to sort of think about it. Then I was in Faenza with VCARB, starting preparations and seat fits, and then you’re basically just focused on the job. As I said, I have the opportunity to still be in Formula 1 and still racing, and that is the main thing for me. With this opportunity, I’m excited to be here. It’s been a strong start to the season for this team, for VCARB. So I guess it’s exciting for me now to come in here in this position. We’ve done simulator and it’s all been OK. Obviously, you don’t truly know until you drive the car.
“So going out tomorrow will be the first proper test and for sure it’ll probably take a session or two to adjust again. But you know, we have three practice sessions here, so yeah, I’ll be making the most of that. Race engineer is Ernesto, who’s been with Yuki in the last 12 months because he had switched last year. But all guys that I’ve worked with. And as a reserve, I spend a lot of time with them. So yeah, it’s a group of people that I’ve got to know very well, so it hasn’t felt like a shift. I would say, so far, it’s felt like I’ve slotted in nicely.”
Can get same feeling, expectations –
Tsunoda: “It’s quite simple things, I guess. If you’re able to push with that car straight away above 95%, just for reference, you start to feel a bit of sliding front and rear. And you feel sliding, front and rear, once you start turn in you see the limitation. That’s kind of the sense I was trying to say. In Abu Dhabi tests, fortunately there are a lot of run-off areas, so I was able to push immediately, knowing that even if I pushed too much, there’s a bit of space to be forgiven. That’s why I was able to push straight away and felt OK with the car. I mean, RB20 historically has a big limitation with instability, and I think it was quite visible that as soon as you turned in, that characteristic was always happening. So probably even without pushing 100%, I already felt those things.
“I didn’t have any reference driver to know if I was driving fast enough or not to exaggerate that kind of limitation. But I think the RB20 was quite easy in that regard. It had enough limitation to feel that instability quite a lot initially on turn-in. First of all, I didn’t feel yet the exact trickiness that the drivers are saying. I have a bit of an idea from the simulator but it’s always a bit different from simulator to real car, so I’ll see after FP1 if I either have to change set-up or…. But I don’t think I’ll have to change my driving style because in the end so far it works well I guess with VCARB, otherwise I wouldn’t be here wearing this logo. So I will just do whatever I was doing previously and I’ll just go step by step to build the pace and everything. Let’s see. Maybe I don’t have to do that. Maybe the car is straightaway good. I think Red Bull had pretty good performance last season, both cars, so I’m quite looking forward to it.”
Lawson: “I won’t truly know until I drive. I think we all feel good. I feel confident. And I don’t think too much has changed since last year. So yeah, I think the ingredients are there. And obviously the main thing is coming here at a track that I’ve driven as well. Hopefully, I slot right in and feel comfortable. I mean, China was a bit more unique, I would say. Just with the race we tried something with the set-up quite aggressive and it was to sort of get some answers and build a direction with the car.
“So we went with that and in the end it didn’t work too well in China specifically with the degradation that we had on the front. The car itself felt quite good, but just on the tyres, we were struggling. Coming here, it’s a new place for Yuki. Obviously, it’s a great opportunity and on a track that he’s done a lot, I’m sure he’ll probably be more comfortable. And I’m sure they’ve done work over the last week as well in the short break to try and work on improving things.”
Podium, what Horner said to achieve –
Tsunoda: “Yeah, I mean, that would be great. First race, home Grand Prix – that’s obviously inside of my head, I would say more like a dreamer for rather than a target. It will be tough. I’m expecting it’ll be challenging. It won’t be as easy as probably people think. It’s such limited time to adapt, and it’s a different beast as well. So I’ll do my best and if I can go through Q3 and score points, I’m happy. Basically, be as close to Max as possible, which anyway gives good results for the team, also it allows the team to support other strategies in the race. They’ve clearly said the main priority is Max, which I completely understand, because he’s a four-time world champion and so far already in the last few races even in difficult situations he performed well. So to be as close a possible to Max.
“Also, to help the development as well with my feedback. They were very happy with my feedback in Abu Dhabi, so just continue that. But the main priority is to be close to Max – which won’t be easy, for sure. I didn’t get any specific number of races or time to prove myself. He’s been very supportive so far and just mentioned the expectations he has of me – what he wants me to achieve. Pressure always comes once you hit the track. But for now, I feel really relaxed. It feels similar to when I was at VCARB. Once I entered hospitality, I was feeling the same, I was only thinking about breakfast. So far I’m not necessarily feeling pressure. Those things will come naturally, especially during qualifying in the home Grand Prix. But there’s not much point in feeling pressure. I’m feeling confident and hope I can do something different from other drivers.”
Things change, can change in future too –
Lawson: “I think we know how Formula One is and how quickly things change. I mean, if I look back a year ago, I had no seat. I was here a year ago watching and wishing I was racing. Then I had the opportunity to race at the end of last year and the opportunity then to go to VCARB. So a lot has happened in 12 months. For me, the main thing is being in a car. I have the opportunity to prove why I belong here and that’s what I’ll try and do, and that’s what I do every single time I get in the car. That’s what I’ll be doing this weekend. I think things change very, very quickly and where my future is, I don’t know. The only way I can control that is by driving fast. I guess that’s part of the conversation. I guess in a way that’s great. But obviously I was already there starting the season and was focused on proving myself in the team at that point.
“So look, whatever happens down the line is more or less out of my control. What I can control is the driving stuff, to prove that. So yeah, where the future goes, honestly at this point, I’m not really thinking about too much. I think, yeah, in Formula 1… It’s motorsport — we have issues, that’s part of it, especially with these cars that are pushing the limits like they are. I’d maybe hoped that would be taken into consideration more, and I think that’s why for me it was important to come to a place that I’d raced before and driven before. Melbourne and China are both tough tracks, and as you said, with the way the weekends went, they weren’t the smoothest. But it’s motorsport. As I said, the decision was not mine, but I’ll make the most of this one.”
Against Verstappen, talks –
Tsunoda: “Not really, to be honest. I think even if I tapped his shoulder and asked about the car, I don’t think he’s going to say the truth, you know? So I just try to discover it myself in the data, how he’s driving, also on onboard videos. I already checked multiple videos from him in the last two Grand Prix. Like I said, I didn’t feel the trickiness yet – the clear trickiness of the car. I’ll feel it myself, and I’m sure it also depends on driving style. It will behave a little bit different. Once I feel the car… in my five years of experience, I believe that will give me some ideas to sort it out. And if I really struggle, whatever… no, I still don’t think I’ll ask him. I’ll just try to discover it with my engineers. So far, they’ve been very helpful. [My engineer] already gave some ideas about what kind of characteristics give drivers very little confidence. That information is already stuck in my head and it’s pretty clear. So I’ll just see how it goes after FP1.
Confidence –
Tsunoda: “Well, for me at least, it was brutal enough last year at the end of the season when they chose Liam over me. Yeah. It is what it is. I’m sure Liam also understands how quickly things can change within our structure. That’s one of the reasons we succeed, but also one of the reasons why we tend to get a little more attention with those situations. Yeah, I forgot the question. I have confidence. I’m not saying I have the confidence that I can perform straight away like Max, but I have confidence that I can do something different – hopefully – compared to other drivers that will be in the car.
“If I didn’t have confidence, I wouldn’t be wearing this. I would have stayed in Racing Bulls. Racing Bulls already have such a good car, and I understand how they extract performance in every race so far but because I wanted to have a new challenge, and I have good confidence to challenge myself, so that’s why I’m wearing this and hitting the track with a different livery.”
Lawson: “I think confidence-wise it doesn’t change a lot. We all have enough self-belief to be here and to make it to Formula One. If you don’t have that self-belief, it makes it very difficult. So I think we all have that naturally — it doesn’t really change how I feel about myself. I think what it’s doing for me… Obviously, the best opportunity I had felt like it was with Red Bull Racing. That’s where we’re all working towards. That’s what I was working towards since joining the junior programme as a 16-year-old. So obviously, I would have liked to make that opportunity work and that’s in my best interest. But obviously, Christian and the team will have their opinions on what’s best, and that’s up to them to decide.”
Too early to hire and fire in hindsight –
Lawson: “I think it’s easy to look at it in that way with how the last couple of weekends went. But as I think we talked about, they were not the smoothest of weekends and at tracks that were very new to me. So in some senses, yes, it was early. But at the same time, I think part of the reason they brought me in in the first place was to adapt quickly. And although that was tough — yeah, I guess, you know, you can say anything now, that the decision done. But it doesn’t change how I view it or how I view myself. I felt like I was ready, so although the weekends were tough, that doesn’t change.”
No Marko call –
Tsunoda: “Surprisingly, he didn’t call me yet. Very unusual. Not sure – maybe he was busy with other things. I can’t wait to see him and see how he’s going to react to me. It’s very unusual. From F3, F2, F1 – he’s always been calling me. But this is the only time he didn’t. I’m sure there’s not anything from his side. Even in the last few races, we’ve still had a good relationship. We didn’t have any moments between us. So yeah, let’s see how he arrives at the track and yeah, we’ll see him in person.”
Other Red Bull drivers say –
Max Verstappen: “My reaction was shared with the team. In general about not only the swap, but about everything. We discussed it already during last weekend, race weekend, back at the factory. Like I said, everything has been shared with the team. How I think about everything. Sometimes it’s not necessary to always share and say everything in public. Think, it’s better. Well, I liked the comment [of Van der Garde], the text, so I guess that speaks for itself, right? It was not a mistake – which happens sometimes when you click on something. As for number of races, people always said that Liam did 11 races or something in total over a different period of time. I think for rookies always the beginning of the season, actually, you have the calendar nowadays.
“And that one is very tough, because most of these tracks, they haven’t really driven on or they mainly have a Sprint weekend. So all these scenarios, they don’t help. Now, from my side, it’s very difficult to say how difficult or how well the car drives, because I’ve not really driven any other car in my career or been with another team. So I just adapt to the situation that I’m in, you know, to the best I can. Looking at Checo, I don’t think you need to have a look at anyone, to be honest. What has been done has been done. I think it’s more important that we take a good look at ourselves and just keep on working and keep on improving the car. I don’t care what anyone else thinks.
“Or poor Checo, or poor this, or poor that. At the end of the day, we got ourselves into this situation, so we just need to work on it. As for Yuki, I think everyone that tries to make it in the sport is working for it every day. They deserve a shot, for sure. No [we haven’t talked as much]. I mean, I’ve only seen Yuki yesterday quickly, and he’s been busy at the factory. But at the end of the day, it’s not really up to me. Also, he has to find it out himself, because my experience might not be his experience.”
Pierre Gasly: “I don’t remember 2019. I mean, yeah, I wish Liam all the best. I can obviously relate to some things. I wish Yuki all the best. I think it’s very difficult to judge anything from the outside. I think only Liam can know his situation and know all the details from it and you just got to respect that. We’re all trying our best with the tools we have. I’ve got no doubts both of them are going to do really well. But yeah, it’s not really for me to comment because you never really know what’s going on. We spoke on the phone. Obviously, the way that I was also given this opportunity and just in terms of what didn’t quite work out and things that could have been different. I think he’s got the experience, he’s got the speed. I’ve always backed him up. I’ve raced against him and with him for two years. I’ve seen his raw speed.
“I’ve seen what he was capable of doing already back at the time. We can look back in 2021, all these years, I’ve always said he was an extremely fast driver. So he’s got the speed. I think he’s got a strong character. Does it mean it’s going to be successful in Red Bull Racing? No. Can he be successful in Red Bull Racing? Yes. But it’s slightly more complicated than that. I just wish him the best. I’ve shared my thoughts and my experience from my time there. Time will tell, but I think he’s definitely a very strong driver. And in Formula 1 these days, you’ve got many strong drivers on the grid, so it’s not all down to your speed. There’s slightly more to it, but hopefully he can make the best out of this opportunity. I think he always had the raw speed. It was a little bit too hectic behind the wheel at times, on the radio. I think in that sense he’s matured enough in minimising the mistakes. It’s all a fine line between pushing right at the limit or over pushing slightly too much, which can be quite costly in Formula 1.
“And I think we’ve tuned that line. Looking at the past few seasons, I think he’s been putting in very strong performances. Speed-wise, he always had it. But in just minimising those mistakes, which could have been quite costly at the time — yeah. I think ultimately more experience in Formula 1 is never a bad thing. So the more experienced you are, the better you are. The more understanding you have of the sport, of the impact of the teamwork, etc. Whether it was the limitation? No, it wasn’t. There was more to it at the time, but I’m not going to really expand into details here. But yeah, more experience in F1 — you are a more complete driver. It’s better. You can’t deny that.”
Isack Hadjar: “I think we’re going to work just fine together [with Liam]. I just focus on what I’m doing, and I don’t need anyone special alongside [me] to push myself to drive as fast as I can – and I just know Liam is great to work with, so all good. No [it is not weird for us], it’s maybe weird for everyone except for the drivers, because we know what going on and how hard this sport is. So between us, there’s no awkward situations at all. I mean, in the Red Bull family, it’s all about performance, the guy who’s performing at the moment has the higher chance to get the Red Bull seat next to Max.
“I think it’s so clear and so obvious. And then once you don’t perform anymore or struggling, then it becomes more difficult. As for Yuki, a bit sad he left. But yeah, it’s definitely gonna be a challenge. I know he’s been ready and waiting for it. And I think it’s really cool as well that he gets the call for his home race. So yeah, I wish him the best. I am not dropped, so it is not concerning me at all. No [pressure seeing Liam dropped after two races itself]. The driver news? Probably like Wednesday or Thursday, I heard the news from Laurent.”
Alexander Albon: “I did not see [van der Garde’s post], I deleted all socials, I stay away from everything but I did hear about it. It’s obviously tricky. You feel for Liam to a certain point, and I do think that it was a tough start. I think the season as a whole has become so tight now that you can’t have these races where you are off. The midfield teams have caught up and most sessions now, even for us, we’re only two-three tenths off, about the back of the top teams, so you can’t afford to be that slow and I think it’s just a difficult circumstance for him. It’s the final year of regulations where the cars have been optimised for their teams, for their drivers, so you’re going to have a tricky position where you come from a car which, historically, as I know, is not the easiest to drive and has to be driven a certain way as well.
“Talking about Liam itself and the situation, I wouldn’t focus so much on him being put back into the RB but more like he’s got a really good opportunity now to get back into the car where he’s comfortable in and he has really great story as I see more of an opportunity, like how amazing it would be to come to this weekend, deliver a good result and put himself back on the map, just as he did before to start the season and bounce back strongly. That’s more my take from this, more than anything else. Then for Yuki, what I am happy about is, I think he’s always wanted that seat. He’s been licking his lips at the opportunity for it. He’s got it now, and I think he’s got the right mentality to go into it. I think you can’t be fearing it. You have to own it. You have to be confident. You have to go into it with that belief in yourself. I think in many ways, things are okay, it is not life and death and I think for both – I am hoping – relish in both of their opportunities. It is slightly different case than mine (for Lawson) because I had to wait a year.
“But I think that in my comeback I had a point to prove and I felt like I wasn’t as bad as what…as how my career ended in 2020 and I use all of that energy…it is not underdog, it is grit to show what you can do and yeah, it is a powerful tool and I remember strongly my first qualifying session with Williams, it is Q1 and I qualified P15, I got through to Q3 and that for me – it didn’t matter to anyone else – it felt like I have come in and I am straight back on it. I don’t see why Liam should be upset. You can grow from that. I have seen little bit of what Christian has said and I think that, it’s not a career-ender for Liam at all. It’s how you use this opportunity. He’s still young. He’s still inexperienced. I know Liam. I obviously raced against him in DTM. I know how quick he is and how quick he was in that series. I think he’ll bounce back, and he’ll be just fine. I am pretty sure I’ll be racing him this weekend.”
Carlos Sainz: “I guess it’s the hard life of Formula 1. It’s nothing new or nothing that we haven’t seen before. Unfortunately, in this sport, only the last two or three races that you do count. At the same time, you can do one good race, and then everything changes, and the perception of everyone completely changes. It can be the same for me. I have a good weekend here, and no one remembers the first two races, the way they’ve gone. It’s just a hard sport, and probably at Red Bull it’s even harder. It is also even tougher because of the way that program is being run and the way it works. But nothing new. When you’re there, you know that’s what’s waiting for you.”
Other F1 drivers –
Lewis Hamilton: “I’m not surprised to see them move that early, no. Both are great drivers. I think we’ve got a lot of really great drivers here, particularly young, talented drivers. I think there’s naturally a lot of pressure on youngsters coming in and I think there’s no way you can get fully on top of a car which is known to be not the easiest car to necessarily drive. Just to get in two races was pretty harsh.”
Jack Doohan: “It is difficult to see, I feel for him but he’s still in Formula 1. I had rumours that I wasn’t even going to drive before I drove. I think he is an extremely, extremely talented driver. And for one reason or another has had a very hard time. But again, only two races. So it’s a shame. But I think, to be honest, it’s going to be more of a threat at RB than it potentially was at Red Bull. It’s a cutthroat sport, and especially in that situation, I don’t want to comment too much on it. But in a top team especially. This is Formula 1. It’s a business where they rely on performances and results. But, you know, he was in a very, very tricky situation and we know how tough that Red Bull is to drive.”
Esteban Ocon: “I mean, there’s two sides of the story there. Obviously, a very difficult one for Liam, and that’s something I don’t wish for any drivers to have lived in. The pressure he must have been going through and not having much support from what I’ve seen from the outside of his team is a difficult task. You always want to work with the people around you. And obviously, if it’s not going well, you want time as a driver to be able to fix things. So yeah, I like Liam a lot. He’s a great guy. And it was not nice to see what he went through, but he’s still in Formula 1, and he’s in a very competitive car as well. So, we should not be too sad for him, because he’s going to be fighting in decent spots in Formula 1 again. So that’s all fine.
“And it’s a good opportunity for Yuki also, especially in his own race. So it’s going to be exciting to watch on that side. But yes, as a driver who’s worked in an environment not very healthy at times, you know, it’s not a nice thing. You want to be surrounded by people who push you in the right direction. And having too much pressure can’t really help, especially in difficult times. In terms of support, yeah, it is very important because, obviously, having the confidence, having the support with the people you work with… People try and look with you on where things are not going right and they trust you in the process of improving step by step.
“When it’s not going well, and people already have their opinion and it’s not going the way you want, well, you are on for a not successful story, really. Because in the back of people’s mind, that their decision has been made. So it is not, I believe, the way it should be. If you take a decision and go for it, you need to stick to it or give as much time as you can. I guess if there is a lot of pressure with points straight away, you know, it’s a difficult one to take. It must have been for everyone. But, yeah, at least I’m happy for Liam that he’s able to fight in that same spot now and not out of Formula 1. That’s the most important thing.”
Fernando Alonso: “Difficult to comment, we only see things from the outside like you guys and so difficult to have an opinion, but best of luck for Yuki, especially. He is racing in Japan and yeah, we will monitor the situation, we will see in the last two races having Liam little bit in our pace, in our fight in Q1 and Q2, lets see if we have a similar situation or not with Yuki.”
Oscar Piastri: “It is not really my place to comment, I think what we have seen from Liam in the first two races is not a reflection of his talent. I have raced Liam for a number of years and I think he’s an incredibly competitive driver. I don’t think the results he showed in the first two rounds are indicative of what he’s capable of. And I’ll leave it at that. In terms of pressure underestimation, I would say yes. I think it’s not easy. And I think also as drivers coming into the sport it’s very easy to be naive about the challenge ahead of you.
“I think in some ways that’s a good thing, in some ways that’s not a good thing. But I think yes, also coming in at the front of the grid is a different challenge to being further towards the back. I think for Liam, especially going up a four-time World Champion in a car that looks from the outside pretty tough to handle, it certainly adds another element I’m sure. I think for me when I joined the team, we were not really a front-running team at that point. But I would imagine it definitely adds another element of pressure.”
Here’s Red Bull, VCARB drivers in Tokyo showrun
Here’s Sergio Perez opening up on various things
Here’s Yuki Tsunoda on Red Bull goals
Here’s Red Bull with special livery
Here’s Liam Lawson on decision
Here’s news on Yuki Tsunoda promotion, Liam Lawson demotion
